I have written the following lengthy comments in response to Jay’s latest post, and thought it would be useful to post if here as well.
Jay,
When I started work on my MA in psychology, the first paper I wrote was on the etiology (causes and development) of homosexuality. I think doing this research was one of the things that eventually led me to give up on my quest to become straight.
No one really has any idea what causes homosexuality. As with most psychological phenomena, research shows that BOTH environmental factors (nurture) AND biological factors (nature) influence the development of homosexuality. Most research also suggests that it is fixed in early childhood, and that it is more or less immutable (cannot be changed).
For me, the most interesting research into whether it is environmental or biological has been work with twins. A well-known longitudinal twin study looked at twins separated at birth. If one twin was gay, there was a 52% chance that the other twin was gay. Since in the general population, most research suggests that less than 5% of men are gay, the chances then of both twins becoming gay because of environmental factors should be 5% of 5% – or 1 in 400. Therefore, this was pretty strong evidence for biological factors causing homosexuality. Of course, the question of the other 48% of twins where one is gay and one is straight is still an important question. Obviously there is something going in the environment as well as in biology. Because of this, many people have compared homosexuality to alcoholism. Alcoholism runs in families, and has been shown to be influenced by genetics. However, some people with the gene that would make them likely to become alcoholics do not become alcoholics: there have been environmental (familial, societal, or religious) influences that stop them from becoming alcoholics. A similar thing is probably going in with homosexuality. I say this guardedly, for a couple of reasons: (1) There really is no substantial evidence of a “gay gene,” so the comparison to alcoholism breaks down right there. Most current researchers claiming a biological cause for homosexuality in humans believe it will be found in a hormonal process that takes place in the womb. (2) Psychological research has repeatedly run into dead ends when trying to identify the environmental factors that contribute to homosexuality. It is popular among ex-gay Christian ministries to talk about an absent father and domineering mother (for gay men), or an inadequate relationship with the same-sex parent, or childhood sexual abuse (all seen as types of emotional trauma) as causes of homosexuality. However, empirical research in these areas has proved inconclusive.
Of course, there have been many Christians who claim to have been healed of homosexuality. Their journeys have been long and difficult, even though they say it has been worth it. But their motivating factors have been fear of displeasing God, fear of displeasing their families, and possibly even fear of going to hell. (I guess I could put this in more positive terms: their motivating factors have been a desire to please God and their families, and their goal of going to heaven.) I understand it in terms of repentance – repentance meaning, literally, “changing your mind.” So, when you change your mind about your sexuality, you become straight. This seems to be another way of saying “fake it ‘til you make it.” I tried to do this until it became untenable to fake it anymore. As much as I believed God wanted me to be straight, I couldn’t make myself think that I was when my desires towards men were so powerful. However, from stories I have heard, some individuals have been able to convince themselves that their homosexual desires are evil, and that thinking that they are gay is a lie from the devil, and that the truth is that God made us all straight. They have repented, or “changed their minds.” And every time they inadvertently find themselves attracted sexually to someone of their own gender, they remind themselves of God’s decree against homosexual behaviour, and of the “truth” that they are straight, and somehow succeed in ignoring or having victory over the attraction/temptation. To me, this is simply being dishonest with one’s self, and I have decided I cannot live like this any more.
Sorry for how academic this comment is sounding, but your post struck a chord with me and I feel I need to be detailed about how empirical (scientific) research has helped me work through these questions.
The other issue for me was that none of the environmental factors really applied. While my father was not perfect, we had a good relationship most of my life. I never experienced abuse of any kind. My mother was/is strong emotionally, but I could never describe her as domineering. The model just didn’t fit for me.
Jay, I have been where you are at. You want to be a faithful, loving husband and father. You want to experience the full pleasure of heterosex. You want it to be satisfying for you, because that would make your life and the decisions you face so much easier. I feel the same way. If you want it “bad enough”, you might be able to do it. But there are many stories out there of many who have tried (for example, Peterson Toscano, Anthony Venn-Brown, Mel White) and eventually gave up in order to keep their sanity and self-respect.
That being said, I also want to say that you are in a good place. You are being honest, you are being true to your marriage vows. You are choosing to live in a way that seems right to you, in spite of your sexual desires. These are important and honourable decisions you have made – I have made similar ones, for similar reasons. But I find that the longer I live accepting myself as a gay man, the more I come to realize that my current situation must change. And ultimately I get to decide how to change it. Of course, our wives could make some decisions that force us to make some changes sooner than we might wish; we will still have choices to make if and when that happens.
Keep living each day with integrity, brother, and one day you will know what you need to do, whether it’s seeking to change your orientation or to embrace it.
June 10, 2008 at 11:25 pm
i told jay he needs to grow up. (because you are Blanche, you are!!!) Deal with your silly shame imposed on you by society because gay people who love themselves the way they are will tell you to piss off. This obsession with struggle is a rediculous, petty and pathetic nonsensical manifestation of your own journey. Currently Jay hates himself. So jay “go to therapy and deal with the fact you are gay. This is not something that goes away. You are obviously not straight, deal with it.” By the way, there is not one damn thing wrong with being gay except YOUR entire thinking mind. You know, youth is not an excuse to be dumb.
June 10, 2008 at 11:53 pm
throughthestorm: i know you try very hard to be there for everyone but if you replace the word gay with straight or homosexual with heterosexual, you will see the hypocrisy. Any debate falls apart. Do you think gay people are unequal and/or second class citizens?
June 11, 2008 at 9:12 am
Ewe raised a very good point in that last comment, one I have thought a lot about, in fact. Maybe this just reflects where I am on my journey, but I do not see being gay as the way our Creator intended us to be. A lot of homophobic people say things like our bodies were not designed for gay sex. I think this is true. I just don’t see why that makes it wrong. I compare it to being born blind. I do not believe our Creator ever intended for people to be born blind. It is an imperfection. This imperfection does not make blind people second-class citizens. It does mean that people try to find causes of blindness, and ways to change it.
Our homosexuality is not wrong, nor does it make us second-class citizens. But it does mean many of us try to find ways to change it – whether it is because of our understanding of God and of sin, or because of our desire for a family of our own, or whatever..
I know “ewe” are not going to like my answer… but there it is.
June 11, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Ok i accept your answer but you are right. I do not like it much. First of all being gay is not only about sex. Look at all the people including yourself that try so diligently to abstain. Everyone including you and many other posters here know very well how to reproduce so i am pretty sure the human race is not going to spiral into extinction because of gay people. But to say being gay is an imperfection is a terrible insult to me. I know you feel that way about yourself and that is the way you feel. It is not correct however. Brotherly love is the most heavenly love there is. I think that was a quote i heard many moons ago and if my boundaries are wider that what society acccepts, that does not in any way make me broken.
June 11, 2008 at 1:19 pm
This is so well articulated. I became an agnostic long before I started recognizing that I am queer, but I can’t imagine how difficult it is to be struggling with Christian messages while questioning my sexuality.
Well spoken.
http://www.simplyqueer.com
June 11, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I do think though that its not necessarily a sexual desire. When I feel loved by men i don’t find myself wanting to have sexual encounters with them that much.
June 12, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Kevin, Thats fine. Nobody expects you to want to sleep with every guy out there. Keep you eyes open. He is out there. The right guy is looking for you too. (wink blink)
June 13, 2008 at 11:11 am
Interesting post and I am glad you are writing to someone who is need.
On the etiology aspect, I feel you could give a bit more credit to hormonal theories – which you do mention, though all too briefly. It seems from things like the twin studies and other correlations between gay men (hair whorls and such), that homosexuality in males may well be a hormonal thing. And it’s not necessarily all-genetic/hormonal-factors or mix-with-environment. There is this concept, particularly in artificial intelligence, that complex systems that are sufficiently sensitive to initial conditions may have non-deterministic results, even if their “programming” is deterministic. (Chaos theory is the reducto ad absurdum of this, but the statement itself does have legitimate rationale behind it – try dropping a ball on a pen, for instance, and seeing which side it bounces off on.)
That’s not to say there are necessarily no environmental factors in the etiology of homosexuality, but a human embryo being sufficiently dependent on the initial conditions of pre-natal hormones for such traits like sexuality may result in non-deterministic (but statistically predictable given certain circumstances) outcome of that person’s sexuality.
That said, you are right – no one has found any sort of a smoking gun. As I tried to illustrate above, it is well within the realm of possibility that there will never be a smoking gun. The more important and practical questions are what one does if one is homosexual, and the moral implications for the life of a homosexual person.
June 13, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Martsen:
oh my dear, that comment was somethin else. I have an opinion to share. I am not an inanimate object nor was i ever dropped on my head. Is there a smoking gun for heterosexuality? I think you all need to reevaluate that rediculous bible and the nonsense many people are trying to convince themselves of stuff is not even in it. I would be laughing if it was not so darn sad. Is there anyone on this site besides myself who likes being who i am? An actively participating gay human being.!!!! Some people go out of their way to make others bonkers.
June 15, 2008 at 1:01 am
Hmm i think we are all at different phases in life right now lol
June 15, 2008 at 10:31 am
Yes Kevin. Tell me, Have you heard the adage “you are your own worst enemy” or “who need enemies when you have friends like that?” Whats my point you ask? I want to know why one would use the very same tactics hate groups use putting down and judging gay people FOR THEMSELVES? I do not hear these struggling gay people defending themselves against this obscene jargon but instead they seem to be falling victim to the interpretation of others. Not that you would even have to defend yourself. The tactic is to have these people who offend me defend themselves and watch their argument fall apart once they see they are confronting someone who loves themselves the way they are; someone who will not stand for being considered an inferior second class citizen to my face without argument. It is difficult to put it mildly to try and boost the fragile minds of gay people who do not accept themselves. Get with it. You become just as much a problem for gay people who are overcoming this crap saturated in religious hatred and control by contributing to their hate and worst of all actually believing their HATE. There is no other word to describe what we are dealing with. It is not worthy of anyone of us to tell ourselves to accept these vicious antics of the religious ignorant. Oh and by the way Happy Fathers day to ALL Dads. Notice how inclusive that last statement is. No subliminal messages of judgement.
June 21, 2008 at 6:22 pm
It depends how you view accepting yourself i suppose. Your view of accepting yourself is giving up for me.
June 22, 2008 at 1:14 am
ewe, you may recall that my blog is described as “married gay Christian explores faith, family and sexuality”. Now, I don’t mind your comments – in fact, I do appreciate hearing your point of view – but please keep in mind that the purpose of the blog is to help me wrestle with the complicated situation of being a gay man, being Christian, being married to a heterosexual woman, and having 3 kids! My faith has shaped my life in more ways than you could ever imagine. It will not be easily abandoned. And if I ever do abandon it, it won’t be for sex.
June 22, 2008 at 1:34 am
Kevin, I think ewe has a point about accepting ourselves. I admire anyone who can accept themselves easily, especially when large segments of society would tell them they are inferior in some way. Any person who comes out as LGBT has demonstrated great courage, whether or not they are Christians.
You say, “your view of accepting yourself is giving up for me”, do you mean to say that if YOU accepted your sexuality as a good gift, then you’d be giving up? Giving up on what, or who?
For ewe, as someone who does not accept the Bible as truth, what could he possible be giving up on? Indeed, it would seem that it is only for those of who consider the Bible to be God’s word that questioning the morality of homosex seems to make any sense.
Another point: those of us who “give up” the fight against our homosexual inclinations, have really only exchanged one fight for another. We begin fighting for self-respect, for equal rights, for understanding, for the freedom Jesus gave us, and for the truth about sexual orientation… Indeed, giving up “the struggle” has enabled me to search deeper for the truth of God and the truth about me, to experience His love for all humankind in a new way, and to be honest with others in ways I had never experienced before.
June 22, 2008 at 8:12 am
WOW! I absolutely love this. I ran across this by accident, or was it? It seems to me that all of you have included me in your thoughts, writings and conversations at one point.
My situation is exactly the same, well almost. My struggles and the searching for answers have led me to the same place. These activities have had to all be in secret though, for fear of being “found out”.
As I get older, I have found that my views change. My prayer is that God will help me to find answers, some help…something! The reality is that I always seem to run into a dead-end. Maybe group therapy would help?
Best wishes to you all. Keep the faith and keep on searching. Maybe someday we’ll find the answer.
Q
June 22, 2008 at 1:51 pm
throughthestorm: Dont put the fact your possible abandonment of your religion for sex is about being gay or about me.
June 22, 2008 at 2:05 pm
i mean above statement of me as a gay person, not me as me alone. and if you do decide to be openly gay and involved in a same sex relationship, chances are you will not have to leave your religion/church. You will be booted out which i am sure you have already thought about. That in itself is reason to abandon it. If not for you then for issues of equality and mankind in the most general sense. I am beginning to see to much gook within the minds of people who struggle with their natural sexual inclinations, orientation and thoughts. It is such a waste of my time. I probably should not respond or read your blog anymore. You are right about that. I have to now ponder why and what i am or was getting from this subject. It is draining and i guess i might stop participating. I do not want to spend my time on this anymore. I find it does not nourish me at all. I thought it was a good thing to have a different opinion. I guess there is the possibility that i just don’t care or perhaps have lost the desire to share with my perspective further.
June 22, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Quen, welcome!
I’m glad you found my blog, and I do not believe it was by coincidence! God bless you, brother.
July 3, 2008 at 8:09 am
“This obsession with struggle is a ridiculous, petty and pathetic nonsensical manifestation of your own journey” Well, thats a quote from “ewe”. I think that most homosexual people have struggles in one way or another.
If you have not yet “accepted your self” so that you are still “trying to be heterosexual”, you keep struggling with your feelings.
If you “give up this struggle” and “exchange one fight for another” you still struggle as clearly put by throughthestorm.
I think that even people who have accepted themselves as homosexual do have struggles.
What sounds pathetic is the opinion I have read on one of these forums that “God did not intend to make us this way” and that “homosexuality is an imperfection”. These sound like hate phrases from a conservative pastor.
July 5, 2008 at 1:45 am
ditto.
July 5, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Jona, your comments are insightful. I gave up the struggle of “trying to be heterosexual,” and have exchanged it for the struggle between side A and side B (if anyone’s not sure what that means, check out http://www.gaychristian.net for a good explanation. Meanwhile, I am tempted to simply walk away from faith altogether – then it wouldn’t matter what side I am on, I guess. But I would still have to work out what values I will live by…
In a nutshell, this is what this blog is about. I accept that I am gay, but what does that mean for me, especially in terms of my faith and my family. Side B would be easiest to go with, but do I go with Side B out of fear? I do believe that God is to be feared, in the sense that He is omnipotent and holy, but I do not accept that fear is a good motivation for any decision.
September 10, 2009 at 10:51 am
Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog. 🙂 Cheers! Sandra. R.